Spill The Tea | Episode 9 | Packaging
Spill the Tea – Episode 9 – Packaging
[Kira Carlin]
And because of that, I spent some time on the flow hive website and it’s an amazing Australian invention and all of those things. And the people who run it seem wholesome as fuck.
[Ming Johanson]
There’s our explicit
[Kira Carlin]
Just.
[Ming Johanson]
Explicit episode.
[Kira Carlin]
It’s just lovely. Somebody bleep me in editing.
[Ming Johanson]
No, no, no let it live. [laugh]
[Intro]
What if you could learn from the mistakes of others? The Spill The Tea podcast is a great way to get information on all things related with digital marketing and business. Hosts myself, Ming Johanson and Kira Carlin break down our knowledge in various fields, including business, sales and marketing. So whether you’re new or old at doing any of these things, tune in each week and hear the lessons learnt, titbits of knowledge and talk of tea.
[Ming Johanson]
Hi Kira!
[Kira Carlin]
Hi Ming!
[Ming Johanson]
What tea are we drinking today?
[Kira Carlin]
I am… nope.
[Ming Johanson]
I am drinking a traditional jasmine tea, is what I’m drinking. Whilst you’re thinking about sneezing, should you point your nose to the sun or a light source? I heard that makes you sneeze.
[Kira Carlin]
Nope, made me not want to sneeze.
[Ming Johanson]
Well, if you just stroke your nose.
[Kira Carlin]
Stupid Allergies. I am drinking a Chiang Mai chai, which is another T2 job. I’ve been really feeling my T2’s lately. Yes, and is a very nice lemongrass thing. Like a little lemon grass in my Chai.
[Ming Johanson]
I do like a bit of lemongrass? My mom puts it in a curry, which I think I’ve mentioned in a previous episode. [laugh]
[Kira Carlin]
I mean I remember since the last time I was drinking, chang mai chai.
[Ming Johanson]
So what are we talking about today?
[Kira Carlin]
I think we should talk about packaging personally.
[Ming Johanson]
Go on.
[Kira Carlin]
Packaging is a bit of a bugbear of mine.
[Ming Johanson]
Oh, yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
Okay. So people spend all this time thinking about their product, their thing, that they kind of make, and then somebody orders their thing from their beautifully crafted website and they have curated this experience, and then they bung it in a bag and send it off.
[Ming Johanson]
A Ziploc bag.
[Kira Carlin]
Yeah, they bung it in a Ziploc bag and it reaches you slightly mangled but still intact.
[Ming Johanson]
Oh it kills me. [Laughing]
[Kira Carlin]
And you get the enjoyable… No my personal favourite is the ones where you have, they’re not even legal in this state anymore, but those old shopping bags that we’ve had in the supermarket for years. [Yeah] I used to get things wrapped up in those.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
It’s like, why do I have this? This isn’t even a legal object any more.
[Ming Johanson]
[Laughing] It’s to stop leakages.
[Kira Carlin]
So Pretty a ways you could do that.
[Ming Johanson]
There is. I always have the conversation about what is the experience your customer is having, opening the package, opening the envelope, opening the box. Like what’s the adventure of your brand that you are imprinting into your customers brain? And if it is a ZipLock bag, It’s not a great way, certainly not memorable.
[Kira Carlin]
Like unless you’re selling weed on the Internet.
[Ming Johanson]
I mean, it might be memorable for the wrong reasons.
[Kira Carlin]
Yeah, it’s one that actually there’s a specific company that I will not name even though I adore them. [Yes] I’ve been buying wool from them for years, so like unspun.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
Sheep. They’re a beautiful yarn company based out of a gorgeous English county. And they sell the most gorgeous colour combinations. So I spend hours on there looking through there and just playing with colours and then I get it and it’s in a plastic bag…
[Ming Johanson]
Plastic Ziplock bag! [Laughing]
[Kira Carlin]
It’s not even a Ziploc, it’s another one of those shopping bags. And I get it, they’re trying to keep the thing dry.
[Ming Johanson]
Do they know it’s illegal? [Laughing]
Kira Carlin
I don’t know. But this is the thing, The experience to this point has been so good. And in fairness to them, their customer experience is slick. [Yeah] Until that point, their website is amazing. Their socials are on point, they’re net like they’re points of contact with me. [Yeah] Fantastic. [Yeah] And then I get the thing, I’m just like really, really?
[Ming Johanson]
So you might not know this. You might know this. I don’t remember if I’ve told you? So I am the daughter of a packaging engineer. [You have told me this] He’s a terrible human being who’s long past. But that’s the only point you’re going to get about that. But he designed and built food processing and packaging machinery that would put potatoes in one end and packets of chips down the other end.
So when he was 21 years old, he built the fully automated processing and packaging plant Smiths Potato Crisps. I have photos of these machines and they’re pretty amazing and feats of engineering. So the whole experience of that, you know, potato chip and going into a bag and then there being a puff of air in the bag. So when you open the bag, it feels fresh, right?
So that whole experience of opening a package of chips and feeling fresh in the air and a lot of that was also around cushioning the product so that when it was travelling it wouldn’t get crumpled and crushed to death. So, you know, those, those little pieces of notes. So I grew up around this, so I am by proxy obsessed with packaging.
I am obsessed with boxes. I will take apart a box and give me a box of playing cards. I’ll pull apart the box. Give me a tissue box. I will pull a pop box, always. Because I want to know how it’s made. I love to the point of obsession, origami for the same reason. I love paper folding and I love the potential for where it can end.
You know, you’ve seen me with the small worlds, with my plants, roses. So, you know, I love these jars with these plants and these little environments of worlds of plants and moss and all of that as well. So, you know, what is that packaging experience? What is that experience of opening the box, lifting the lid, whatever that looks like? We recently did a product development for one of our favourite clients, Perfection Chocolates, where we did an Advent Calendar. Now this was trying to solve a few different things. Part of it was they’re on the East Coast, I’m on the West Coast.
And we have quite a wide divide and trying to get products from there to here sometimes is difficult because they run a very, very busy shop and sometimes that there’s a struggle in getting things to us because it’s not part of their normal ordering process. So we sort of decided, well, how about we make the thing here in terms of the packaging because, well, everybody can imagine the chocolates in the box. They don’t need to see them. You know, and that’s been a really fascinating experiment because what were literally selling is the box.
[Kira Carlin]
And the advent calendars are a really great way to look at this because it really is all packaging. [Yeah] Especially like the ones from Perfection are beautiful.
[Ming Johanson]
Thanks. [laugh]
[Kira Carlin]
But you know, like, just not that but the chocolate that’s going in there, [Yeah] all of that stuff is gorgeous. [Yeah] But even the cheap shitty ones from, you know that you buy for three bucks from Coles, the chocolate is rubbish. [Yeah] You buy the packaging. [Yeah] You buy the experience of the packaging. [Yeah] And that’s really something that is.
[Ming Johanson]
It’s the favourite’s box right? And if you open the favourite’s box, it’s a mystery box. Mystery of chocolates. Right?
[Kira Carlin]
Exactly. But this is, you know, it’s an ongoing experience. You experience the packaging every day for a month.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
And it’s just something we’re so used to. We don’t even think about it.
[Ming Johanson]
No, no. So, I think there is a real resurgence around subscription boxes.
[Kira Carlin]
Oh yeah, I love a subscription box.
[Ming Johanson]
So why? Why?
[Kira Carlin]
Oh, okay. So subscription boxes are great because it’s like this bit of whimsy and nonsense which we should talk about at some point the value of whimsy and nonsense because it’s so massive, but it’s a little bit of something I didn’t have to think about too hard [Yeah] coming through my door.
[Ming Johanson]
Somebody else thought about it.
[Kira Carlin]
Exactly. Somebody else has put work into this, but I didn’t have to go on there and individually order these things.
[Ming Johanson]
Yes, Convenience my God.
[Kira Carlin]
It’s. It’s that same shiny crow brain thing that we all had in a lucky dip as a child.
[Ming Johanson]
[Laugh] I remember the lucky dip.
[Kira Carlin]
And it was always like a polished stone that nobody wants. But it was so exciting. It’s the same thing, over and over – shiny crow brain. I know, like everybody I know does. [it’s ADHD] We have a shiny chrome where I’m just like, Ooh, that’s a thing I didn’t know I needed, but now I do.
[Ming Johanson]
I Feel like if I had a lucky dip for resin casting, I’d be doomed. I would just buy so many of those things.
[Kira Carlin]
Just because you want to know.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah. Whatever mystery awaits me and I like. I am a big fan of mystery. Well, you know, and this is why I love all the television shows I love and all the, you know, movies that I love is, I love the mystery. I’m not watching it because I know how it ends. It’s the same thing with the product, right?
[Kira Carlin]
I’m a long-time member of a subscription gardening service, like a gardening shop. So I joined because I like their catalogue, but every few months they have like a seed giveaway.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
And there is always the choice of, like, gambler’s choice of flower seeds or fruit seeds or whatever it is. And I always get the gamblers choice, even though I know it’s probably not going to be something I want because the surprise is worth it.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
And that’s why I love a subscription box. The only gripe I have about subscription boxes is they are usually great for a few months. And then it seems like they make the mistake of thinking that you want what they’re selling. So you come for the you know, I’ve done subscription boxes for yarn and things like that. They make the mistake of thinking that you’re there for their yarn.
[Ming Johanson]
It’s their product.
[Kira Carlin]
You’re there for the surprise.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
And they lose the whimsy.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
And that’s when I know how.
[Ming Johanson]
There’s a lot of, I think in good subscription boxes and we’re certainly working on a few at the moment. There is a lot of product development and sourcing that’s required. [Yeah] It’s not just about selling your product, it’s about selling that whole experience. And like there is such a big experience in subscription boxes and when I see them being talked about online by certain friends, like I’ve got a friend who is subscribed to a teacher’s subscription box, and so she just gets basically sent awesome, cool, weird stationery every month and I think that’s the best.
[Kira Carlin]
Oh yeah, down for that.
[Ming Johanson]
So you know, it’s like having, because the thing is you’re not just doing a set and forget you are a product developing throughout an entire year cycle and then you’re doing it again. And not just, you’re not doing product development in the month before you’ve got the orders. You actually do that product development the year before.
[Kira Carlin]
And once you lose that thing that you got people therefore in the first place, which is usually the surprise. [Yeah] There’s not a lot of purpose.
[Ming Johanson]
Like we spoke about pricing in the previous episode and you know, invisible costs of running a business and part of the invisible costs of running a subscription box business is replacing products. If your production line or if your logistics gets disrupted in some way, which my God, we’ve just gone through a pandemic. How much has logistics been thrown, right? So, you know, having to replace products or source products from locals is hard.
[Kira Carlin]
It’s hard.
[Ming Johanson]
It’s hard work.
[Kira Carlin]
It absolutely is. And it’s things like subscription boxes. Really what you’re paying for is their time and ingenuity. You know that the product is not going to be the exact thing that you want because you didn’t order it, the exact thing you wanted. You ordered somebody to send you a delightful surprise. [Yeah] Which I love. Even in, like boxes of other things.
I buy a lot of things on the internet because I’m a natural introvert. I don’t like leaving the house, but things that I get like, so particular skin care site that I buy from puts a Tim Tam [of course they do] in like just a single packaged Tim Tam in every box. I’m always like, That’s such a weird thing, but I really want it. [laugh]
Well, maybe not such a weird thing after all. Or like, not like a little proper little glitter, but because we all know that’s annoying as hell. But the big glitter pieces that are, you know, like little hearts, a little chickens [Yeah], you know, that is always fun [knick-knacks]. Yeah. [Little Knick-knacks] when it falls out of the thing, I’m just like “that’s so nice!”. Yeah or fun printed boxes. Another skin care site I buy from, you know what’s coming because they’ve just handed you a box that’s covered in branding.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
Which in any other situation you like. But it’s so much nicer than getting a plain white box.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah. And you know what, there’s affordable ways of doing that? Like I say, you don’t have to go and get, you know, if you’re starting out in the whole subscription box space, you don’t have to go and get boxes printed and certainly I wouldn’t. Whilst you’re still trying to figure out and do the product development staff, I’d just get a plain box and add a sleeve.
[Kira Carlin]
Or a sticker.
[Ming Johanson]
Or a sticker.
[Kira Carlin]
Can be as simple as a sticker.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
And then put some cute like coloured tissue paper and some of the big glitter in it and you’re done.
[Ming Johanson]
Sometimes the boxes are too big.
[Kira Carlin]
Oh I hate that!
[Ming Johanson]
Just get a smaller box, It’s fine.
[Kira Carlin]
I actually really like it when the boxes are really closely packed. [Yeah] Because it feels like there’s a lot in.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah like that’s such a thing right. Yeah. So going back to that experience, I want my box to be bursting at the seams. I want to open the box and go, Oh my God, there’s so much value in this, awesome!
[Kira Carlin]
Exactly. And fun colours. All gold. I mean gold. [Yes, Yeah] Anything like that. You were talking about the gold box theory the other day.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah. So you know, people will buy a shiny box with no understanding of what’s in it and they will spend twice the price for a gold box as opposed to a plain white box in the comparison for the exact same product. They might have the exact same product in it and they’ll pay more for the gold box.
[Kira Carlin]
Of course.
[Ming Johanson]
But this is the iPhone theory, right? Like if you buy an iPhone and every bastard on the planet keeps the damn box.
[Kira Carlin]
I’ve still got the box for my MacBook.
[Ming Johanson]
I shouldn’t have.
[Kira Carlin]
Even though I haven’t because it’s the box that is well constructed. So you feel like kind of a dick throwing it away.
[Ming Johanson]
It’s like a feat of engineering, right? Like you have this admiration for the construction of just the box, not even the product, but just like I think I have. Yeah, the last two phones that I bought, I still have the boxes for them.
[Kira Carlin]
Yeah, I’ve still got the box for my last two MacBooks.
[Ming Johanson]
Right.
[Kira Carlin]
I don’t even have the other laptop.
[Ming Johanson]
You get we are never going to do anything with those boxes.
[Kira Carlin]
Never! And it’s massive, the macbook boxes are huge!
[Ming Johanson]
I do feel like guilt is a good part of that. [laugh]
[Kira Carlin]
And then you buy them like, particularly if you go to the Apple Store or anything like that and the box you bought in the box fits perfectly into the bag. [Yeah] And there’s something about that as well that’s really satisfying.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah, Like this is a very obscure nerd reference, but the radio series Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, All I can think of is the sound of the opening door. And there’s probably going to be like five people that listen to this podcast going, I know that sound, but it’s just like the door gives a sigh of satisfaction as it opens, and that is the same feeling and sensibility and memory activation I get.
[Kira Carlin]
I totally understand that. You just need that. You need to consider the whole experience in the same way that we’ve talked about when you’re considering your website and you should thinking about that as part of the client experience and making that easy and thinking about that in terms of a bricks and mortar space and how that would look if it was a real space in the real world.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
It’s the same thing. It’s the exact same thing. You need to think about the entire client experience and client journey.
[Ming Johanson]
And so this is a missed opportunity. I say a lot. Somebody bought your product, they’ve got the box. I open the box, I go, this is great. Got the product, nice. What about the opportunity to rebuy [Mhm] A little card that says ‘Do you need more? Do you need a restock?’.
[Kira Carlin]
One of my favourite Etsy stores actually I buy beautiful things from her and I’ll try and remember what she’s called. Just beautiful educational posters. [Yeah] Lots of cool animals and plants and things [smart things]. And I can’t remember what she’s called, but I’ll find it. I’ll put it in the chat, not the chat.
[Ming Johanson]
The website.
[Kira Carlin]
The that thing.
[Ming Johanson]
The thing, The transcript.
[Kira Carlin]
Really simple things like the fact she’s always got the little card in it, but because I buy things from her and it’s usually more than a year apart. [Yeah] She will just put; ‘Thanks so much for coming back again’. I’ll be like, I feel seen, I feel seen.
[Ming Johanson]
Aww, I bought, a while ago. I bought a bunch of tiaras from this website because I was like, I need to buy tiaras for some of my friends. One in particular a tiara I bought for one of my very good friends, and she literally screamed.
When She saw it. But I bought a few tiaras from this store because I think I spent like $400. So I guess I spent a significant amount of money with them. And it was during the pandemic. And I was like, and what was funny was I had actually done a call out on one of the Facebook groups going, Does anybody know where to buy tiaras at the moment?
Because we were all in lockdown. None of us can leave our homes. I can’t go out to the shops and find this thing. And I had two people referred. The first one was just an Instagram, who didn’t have a website and I couldn’t figure out how to buy the product. They were beautiful products on her Instagram, but there was no way for me to just go to click Purchase.
[Kira Carlin]
I hate that if I have to have an interaction with a person before I buy not doing it.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah, just let me browse and pick what I want. The second one was the website and you know, they had a whole bunch of stuff and I was like, Oh yeah, I’ll get a bit of that and a bit of that and I ended up, $400 later. But they sent me a package and it was beautifully wrapped. It had beautiful tissue paper and it had a lovely note, a little postcard in it with a lovely handwritten note going, Thank you so much for supporting our store. Plus they added in a bunch of extra stuff, so they added in like a beautiful spray, which now I need to buy more because I’ve run out and it’s awesome and I didn’t actually buy it in the first place. So now I need to figure out what the hell that is. But, but this is, if they’ve got me as a return customer because they sent me something with a branding on it as well. So smart.
[Kira Carlin]
I love a sample. [So Smart!] I can’t believe we haven’t talked about samples, but samples are the best thing. I get so many things that I didn’t know I needed.
[Ming Johanson]
But that’s the purpose of samples, right? Is, I had no idea I needed this in my life and now I do.
[Kira Carlin]
Exactly, Exactly! And you are looking at this thing going, same woman. So who’s on Etsy? I’m going to have to find. She’s astonishing, but you always get a couple of little extras. [Yeah] So if I bought things, like things that I buy, like the moon phase calendar from 2022, which is up on my wall.
[Ming Johanson]
That’s such a you thing. [laugh]
[Kira Carlin]
Hey look, I’m a weather nerd! I like knowing about things like knowing things like tides… I’m a nerd [laughter]. So I buy something like the moon phase calendar. Yeah. And then she’ll send me a couple of little cute b-prints. Yeah, she’s done. And then suddenly I’m like, Well, I didn’t know I needed these, and now I need a full set. [Yeah] Because that’s who I am as a person.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah. Yeah. So it’s like this is it, like people just stop at the transaction and there’s so much more you can do past the transaction. And like we’re talking pretty heavily about products, but the same thing when you are actually selling yourself or you’re selling a service is what is, what is the extra and like the extra might be, so, you know, at the moment and I’m hoping none of our clients are listening to this because then otherwise they’re going to know what their Christmas present is [laugh]. Like at the moment I’m making some resin keychains with their business card details embedded in a microchip, so that they have a business card on them, on their keychain all the time with their logo on it.
[Kira Carlin]
Perfect.
[Ming Johanson]
Right.
[Kira Carlin]
Isn’t that perfect?
[Ming Johanson]
So something with their logo, something with their branding on it, something that is functional and usable. And then like, you know, what’s going to happen in that transaction. People are going to go, that’s cool because it’s, you know, a fun gimmick. And how did you get that? What did tell me more about this thing? And they’re like, Oh, actually this was a Christmas present from our marketing company.
[Kira Carlin]
Exactly. So I found the Etsy woman, natural art guides on Etsy. All one word and she’s based in WA as well. I think she’s based up in Quinns Rocks or something, but she does all sorts of fabulous butterfly prints. It’s just awesome. But every time I get something from her, I end up with a few, a few little bits of extra, and then I’m like, Well, now I have the beginning of a flower series, I need the rest [laughter]. And they’re always beautiful and the packaging is gorgeous. And no matter how far apart it is, I order from her. She remembers that I’m a return customer.
[Ming Johanson]
That’s, yeah, see that’s good.
[Kira Carlin]
Customer service is just on point.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah. Being remembered. [Mm] So there is a store, it’s sportscraft in myers. Because I get these beautiful print shirts that I adore. I spend a fortune to buy them, but I go back to the same store because the person who serves me remembers me every time. And I love it.
[Kira Carlin]
Yeah and the more we shop online, the less you get that experience. Because most people don’t. You’re never going to get that experience out of Shein or like you know [laugh]. Because It’s not set up for that and It’s fine. That is, we understand what those things are, but those personal experiences and finding ways to bring great customer service to the online experience [yeah] is fantastic. You see so much creativity.
[Ming Johanson]
So this is it, I really want people to walk away from this episode having a think about how does the experience transcend past the digital. [Mhm] Because like the, from the very first interaction that they might have on your Instagram or TikTok or whatever to right through to them buying a product, opening the product, looking at the extra little bit that you might have sent them and it doesn’t have to cost you the earth to do the extra right?
[Kira Carlin]
It doesn’t need to be expensive. What it needs to be is thoughtful, that’s it.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah. And considered and thoughtful and considered.
[Kira Carlin]
I honestly think if we were harking back to our client who we’re talking about last episode, who makes these beautiful craft products.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
I haven’t bought from him online yet. I bought things from him in person, but I haven’t bought from him online. If I was a customer, I was coming into that interaction brand new. [Yeah] And I’d bought a bunch of one type of thing and I got a sample, single sample little bit that just said, I saw you loved these colours. I thought you might want to have a look at this one as well. [Yeah] I don’t need ten samples. What I need is the thoughtfulness of ‘I saw this and thought of you’ [Yeah]. And that speaks volumes.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah. ‘Hey, maybe try this out’.
[Kira Carlin]
Yeah.
[Ming Johanson]
Give this a go. [Mm] Well, we’d love to see your project. [Yeah] Tag us on your project. We’ll share it out. Right?
[Kira Carlin]
And even things like when you’re working in the craft space running groups so that your customers feel seen and valued. [Yeah] That they’re part of a community. [Yeah] Those things just speak volumes. [Yeah] And this is how we got to the unboxing video. This is how we saw the rise of the unboxing video. [Yeah] Because people want to share those experiences.
[Ming Johanson]
I think 2006.
[Kira Carlin]
Yeah.
[Ming Johanson]
Is when that started. [Yeah] So that became a phrase that started trending on Google Trends in 2006.
[Kira Carlin]
And now it’s huge.
[Ming Johanson]
Huge.
[Kira Carlin]
Huge! Yeah. And of course it makes total sense because who wants to watch someone open a box unless the experience of opening the box is special?
[Ming Johanson]
My number one video on TikTok is me opening a $12 box of resin from Kmart. Like, that blows my mind that has reached like something like 10,000 people, and I still don’t understand it. The algorithm on TikTok makes no sense to me whatsoever.
[Kira Carlin]
Which is probably why you like it so much.
[Ming Johanson]
I love it! It’s witchcraft! It’s witchcraft!
[Kira Carlin]
Yeah, but watching someone open a box when what they get in the box is special is exciting. [yeah] Even unusual packaging around… So I bought… What did I buy recently? It was something that came in a tin see. I don’t even remember what it was. I just remembered the package.
[Ming Johanson]
Was it tea?
[Kira Carlin]
No, It wasn’t tea. It might have been eye cream.
[Ming Johanson]
Oh yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
And I bought it just for the tin. And now I use the tin to hold pencils.
[Ming Johanson]
[Laugh] I have bought things for just the bottle actually when I think about it, or if it’s like a peanut butter or a jam and it’s in a particular type of jar that turns into a glass because then I feel like I’m getting more value out of it because then I can use it later is something else.
[Kira Carlin]
Exactly! I buy tins all the time because again, I’m a crafter, so I need something to hold.
[Ming Johanson]
Things.
[Kira Carlin]
My knitting needles and my stitch markers and my things. So I’ve got this fabulous little violet and niece candy tin. The candy tastes like people’s grandmother’s smells. Just like in a pleasant way. In a pleasant way.
[Ming Johanson]
You didn’t make them sound pleasant, it sounded like… [laugh]
[Kira Carlin]
You know that perfume that like for a while there, all older women were wearing and it was probably a lot of different perfumes, but…
[Ming Johanson]
It just felt the same because it was coated in armpits.
[Kira Carlin]
The assumption in the industry was that older women wanted to smell like violets and liquorice. And yeah, it just tastes like licking somebody’s grandmother’s face. [laugh] But I wanted the tin. And now that I have the tin, I use it with my stitch markers. I look at it literally every day because I’m using it. [Yeah] So that brand is forever imprinted on my memory.
[Ming Johanson]
So there is, there is a particular experience I had with displate, which are these metal plates that I have on my wall that I’m magnetised. So they have this magnet that you stick on the wall and then you can stick these plates on the wall and you don’t have to worry about hooks or anything. And it’s sort of like this really easy process that I never have to think about. [cool]
And the interesting thing that goes on when you purchase a display from them is then they do a really targeted ads to you on your Facebook or social media or whatever. And it’s a video of like these little machines all packing displates and going on a production line and just going on on the video loop saying, hey, thank you so much for buying the products. That’s it, no other purpose but to thank you for purchasing.
That is it. And it was so seamless. Like literally minutes later I was on my Facebook feed and they’re going, hey thanks, the elves are busy at the factory. And I was like, this is genius. You guys are so smart.
[Kira Carlin]
That’s I think what we’ve been kind of dancing around with this and in the last couple of episodes maybe is how it feels to have a good customer experience. Yeah, the one that I always think of is the flow hive, right? [Yes] So I’m a bee person. I like bees and I’m not a beekeeper yet, but I will be. [Yes] And because of that, I spent some time on the Flow-Hive website and it’s an amazing Australian invention and all of those things. And the people who run it seem wholesome as fuck.
[Kira Carlin]
And because of that, I spent some time on the flow hive website and it’s an amazing Australian invention and all of those things. And the people who run it seem wholesome as fuck.
[Ming Johanson]
There’s our explicit
[Kira Carlin]
Just.
[Ming Johanson]
Explicit episode.
[Kira Carlin]
It’s just lovely. Somebody bleep me in editing.
[Ming Johanson]
No, no, no let it live. [laugh]
[Kira Carlin]
So they just seem so wholesome. And apart from that, the minute I go on the website, it starts to follow me around the internet, which seems like it would be annoying, but it just means that I’m seeing adorable beekeeping videos all the time. So because of that, I joined their ‘Beekeeper Academy’ and I just watched adorable, wholesome beekeeping videos and I learnt how to keep bees even though I don’t have bees.
Yeah, and because of the brand loyalty that they’re building all the time and every single interaction I have with them, I would never buy a knock out flow hive even though I can do that for a third of the price. [Yeah] I’ll never alter my customer experience because even before I’m a customer, I feel loyalty.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah, well, because they’re staying top of mind in smart and interesting ways that aren’t just selling you a beehive. It’s, Hey, these are all the periphery things you’re going to have to know at some point when you own a beehive, because obviously you’re thinking about it and maybe you just need this extra little bit of information, in order to get you across the line?
[Kira Carlin]
I feel like I’m being sold, too. I feel like I’m being value added. [Yeah] All the time.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
Every time I see it, I’m like, ‘oh god, another flow high ad’. I’m like, ‘oh yeah, this is pretty cool’.
[Ming Johanson]
So fun. Yeah
[Kira Carlin]
And that is really just prime customer service. It must cost them a fortune for the amount of digital advertising that they do. But they are, they would be raking it in from that because I have never seen a bad misstep from them.
[Ming Johanson]
I think it’s just a matter of setting it up, right? Like once you have systems in place, you, you’ve got all your content and you just keep building on it and on a long enough like, you know, I think it probably takes about a year for you to build enough content for that whole system to work.
[Kira Carlin]
But they’re clearly paying for retargeting, they’re paying for google ads and they’re paying for all the things. [Yes] But they’ve got all the support services set up around it. Their SEO is just chef’s kiss on point.
[Ming Johanson]
So whoever’s running their marketing, chef’s kiss admiration.
[Kira Carlin]
Their team is doing an amazing job. [Yeah] But as a potential customer, they’ve got me. They’ve got me for life. Yeah. It would have to work very hard to screw this up.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
And that’s the enviable position.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s really what we want to get our clients to.
[Kira Carlin]
Absolutely.
[Ming Johanson]
Every time, every time we meet a new client. It’s okay, let’s let’s review. Let’s review. Let’s look at it. Let’s look at all the things and all the buttons and push all that. And we will, we will. I think I do the same thing I used to do whenever I took over a store in telecommunications. I will mystery shop you.
I will go to your website. I will press every button. I will go through what I think is the normal customer journey of if I was a customer looking for your product. And then go, okay, all right, well, here’s, here’s the holes. Where’s the call to actions, wheres the… you know, how are you getting me as a customer?
[Kira Carlin]
Mhm. And being mystery shopped doesn’t hurt in that sense. Like going into it with its fresh eyes going, Well, how do I come across to customers? How does my business come across to customers? If I’m asking questions like if I as a customer asking questions, does somebody seem genuinely annoyed about that? [Yeah]. What you know, it’s hard being in anything to do with retail and hospitality.
You are just worn to the bone with customer interactions. But there is something about approaching a new thing, like for example, beekeeping with curiosity and knowing that whatever you ask them will be met with genuine delight. [Yeah] Because they can’t wait to tell you about the thing.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah. You know what? There’s a really good, that’s a really good point because I think there’s a lot of businesses out there that could shift their perception around questions because, you know, and I’ve always said this about questions for us, it’s a buying sign. Questions even no matter how annoying and annoyed you might be that you’ve answered this question for the thousandth time, is buying signing? That somebody is interested in something that you do and you’re like, you’re only a few questions or answers away from them being your customer.
[Kira Carlin]
And often you can solve those things if you find yourself answering those questions a thousand times, have a couple of blogs set aside [write a blog], ready for those who comes in and goes, Great here’s what I’ve got. Here are some resources. If this doesn’t answer what you’ve got, let me know. Yeah, I’m happy to talk to you about whatever it is, but this might answer your question.
[Ming Johanson]
I think blogs are good because you can also say, look, 172 other people ask the same question. That’s why we wrote the blog. And yeah, we’re not trying to avoid the question, we’re just trying to be efficient with our time. Yeah. And if you’ve got more, more questions after that, let’s chat, let’s have a conversation. So it creates the opportunity, one for an additional touchpoint for your brand and two you get to be, well more for us, It’s the expert in the room, right?
[Kira Carlin]
And that’s, you know, that’s where it sits if you’re genuinely delighted to talk to somebody about their new hobby, which is…
[Ming Johanson]
Resin.
[Kira Carlin]
Resin for example, if you are genuinely sharing the passion with them, they’re never going to go anywhere else. [No] They’ll never leave you.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah, Enthusiasm. Enthusiasm sells definitely.
[Kira Carlin]
It’s what you’re giving them is you’re giving them a sense that it’s a safe thing to do because there will be somebody to help them. [Yeah] That they’re not going to get into it and fall on their face. So then they just go, ‘Oh, well, this is great.’
[Ming Johanson]
So if people want to connect with us and find out more and if, you know, if you’re looking at your online experience in your packaging experience and your actual customer experience, then you can reach out and have a chat to either one of us. My name is Ming Johanson, you can find me on LinkedIn and…
[Kira Carlin]
I’m Kira Carlin. You can also find me on LinkedIn or in any yarn shop in the city. And I was having a think about it. We should talk about some nonsense next time we talk a fair amount of nonsense anyway, but we should actually talk about nonsense. [Nonsense] You talked a little bit earlier this episode about whimsy and nonsense, but I’ve been kind of taken it over in my brain and there’s a lot to be said about that.
[Ming Johanson]
Be whimsy and nonsense being a part of your marketing plan.
[Kira Carlin]
Oh, yeah.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah.
[Kira Carlin]
So much more powerful than you think.
[Ming Johanson]
Yeah, check us out marketingjumpstart.com.au
